Lift = Safety?

kcraw · Jun 4, 2012

All the safety threads get closed before I get a chance to post this. WTH?

This is totally anecdotal, but I am convinced that a lift and backspaced wheels with wide off road tires greatly improves side-impact crash safety.

A couple of months back, a woman driving a late model sedan going about 40mph ran a red-light and t-boned the driver's side of my 07 2-door JK. She never even hit the brakes.

I'm running 4" of Teraflex lift and 35" MT/Rs on 4.5" backspaced wheels. My damage? Apparently the left part of her bumper hit nothing but air. The right part of her bumper hit my rear tire hard enough to spin my Jeep around. She bent my rear track bar slightly and warped my axle shaft, shifting the rear tire less than 1/2". Oh, and the center cap on my wheel was crushed.

Her car was totaled and I drove my Jeep to the 4x4 shop to have her insurance replace the parts.

unk:

kjeeper10 · Jun 4, 2012

Pics

daggo66 · Jun 4, 2012

Pictures or it didn't happen! :whistling:

Sueby · Jun 4, 2012

I got sideswiped on the highway by some idiot texting & all he hit was tire. My illegal tires.

Dented in and left a tire track down the passenger side door of his ride about 3 feet long. All I had was a small scuff mark on my tire.

kcraw · Jun 4, 2012

daggo66 said:
Pictures or it didn't happen! :whistling:

Ha. I didn't take pics because there was no visible damage to my vehicle. I thought there was at first because there was a piece of bumper under my tire when I came to a stop, but it turned out to be part of her bumper not mine.

MTH · Jun 4, 2012

Not sure what you mean about "safety" threads getting closed . . . .

Anyway, I think many of us have considered the same issues. My completely unscientific conclusion is that it's a mixed bag on safety and lifts--there's no free lunch.

There are certainly reasons why a lift, bigger tires, and some good rock rails would improve safety. You're higher off the ground for one. So statistically speaking, you're more likely to be seated above vehicles that would t-bone you. The wide tires also provide a "bumper" of sorts in a side swipe scenario, and provide a few more inches of crush space if a vehicle hits you from the side before the impact would get to you. Good steel rock rails also provide an addiitonal layer of sturdy impact protection.

That said, there are opposing reasons that would suggest you're not safer as a result of a lift and bigger tires. You've raised your center of gravity, making a rollover more likely. Bigger offroad tires and suspension lifts are unlikely to handle as well at high speeds as a stock set up, reducing your manuverability. And a stock jeep already sits you pretty high, so I'm not sure another 2.5" or even 4" is doing that much for you.

So IMO it's more situational. In YOUR case--a side impact from a sedan--you were indeed probably helped by your mods. But in SOMEONE ELSE's case--for example, a rollover caused the need for emergency manuvers at highway speeds--it may be that the very same mods contributed to or made the accident worse.

Edit: And BTW, you describe a remarkably small amount of damage from a 40 mph impact of a 1400 or 1500 lb sedan. I realize it was your accident and you were there, but are you sure you've got all the facts straight? You're really saying that your jeep took a 40 mph side impact with so little damage that it was readily driveable?

kcraw · Jun 4, 2012

For sure, it's situational and there's a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek in my post. However, I will say that with geometry correction I haven't noticed much loss in high speed maneuverability, even when driving places like Chicago. However, I have a full kit with upgraded control arms, relocation brackets, front and rear track bars, and a steering stabilizer, and that the geometry is pretty good.

As for the accident itself: There are very tall bushes at the intersection so we couldn't see each other. The light changed green for me early enough that I didn't need to slow down. She missed the light change and plowed into me in a 35mph zone and stated to the police she was going 35-40mph. It is possible she hit the brakes and slowed down slightly, but she would have had only a few feet to do so (I was in the near lane on a one way road). Yes, I insisted on police, not because I'm a jerk, but hit and run laws here in Colorado are really draconian. She hit me hard enough to spin my Jeep 180 degrees so that I was facing the way I was coming. It was drivable. The local 4x4 shop that is very reputable and built the thing went over it and found only the damage I described. Ended up being about $1200 because of the aftermarket track bar and labor. For reference, her entire plastic bumper was gone and her radiator was cracked pretty bad.

MTH · Jun 4, 2012

Well, according to THESE folks, we have one of the "most dangerous cars in America." I think we need to tell them about our lift/tire theory . . . .

DrDanimalSize · Jun 4, 2012

Durr hurrr I like FOX news

Bigger (wider) tires and rock rails/bumpers would help, lift wouldn't IMHO

panthermark · Jun 4, 2012

Depends on the situation.....and from who's perspective you are talking about.

As MTH said....no free lunch.

A lift, wider tires, steel bumpers and side rails will probably help in a low(er) speed accident.

But all of that could cause an accident (or make it worse) as well (to add to what MTH stated).

400 extra pounds of steel, a higher COG, and off-road tires may not help you if you need to swerve or make a panic stop to avoid an accident.

Looking at it from the other side as well.
The person in the other vehicle may not be to happy about having:
A stringer in the ear-hole.
or
A winch in their cheek bone
or
Have a lifted Jeep with a stubby bumper and 35's submarine their car...and they catch a face full of hot engine.
or
Have one those off-road tires that are sticking out past the fenders fling a rock at their windshield.

jkjeeper06 · Jun 4, 2012

panthermark said:
A stringer in the ear-hole.
or
A winch in their cheek bone
or
Have a lifted Jeep with a stubby bumper and 35's submarine their car...and they catch a face full of hot engine.
or
Have one those off-road tires that are sticking out past the fenders fling a rock at their windshield.

well those just don't sound that delightful

kcraw · Jun 4, 2012

I'd be interested to see the math, assuming no increase in body roll and corrected geometry, showing how 2-6" of actual lift effects the amount of lateral force required to roll in an emergency swerve. The change in vertical COG depends not only on the actual lift, but also on any shift in weight distribution, so it could actually be more or less than the actual lift. Also, the wider track created by increased backspacing and wider tires would increase the amount of force required to roll, though by how much I've got no clue.

Moral of the story is I'm no engineer, but I'm curious just how much increased risk of a rollover during emergency maneuvering there really is.

Yes, I'm being a nerd even though I'm not really concerned with my own personal safety.

As for other vehicles, they should watch more closely for the herculean vehicles we drive and not do stupid things around them. I'm a safe driver and haven't caused an accident since I was 16. :angel:

mslandsurveyor · Jun 4, 2012

Seems to me that the bigger, ergo "slower", you appear, the faster and more idiotic other drivers seem to be around you.

People loved to cut me off and generally be pains in the behind when I drove my Super Duty. They were just so worried about getting around me or pulling out in front of me because they thought that I would be slow that they failed to realize just how difficult it can be to stop a massive truck like that.

They are better around the new JKU though than the Super Duty.

kcraw said:
.....As for other vehicles, they should watch more closely for the herculean vehicles we drive and not do stupid things around them. I'm a safe driver and haven't caused an accident since I was 16. :angel:

-JC- · Jun 4, 2012

Apparently the left part of her bumper hit nothing but air. The right part of her bumper hit my rear tire

I can't picture this for a car striking the drivers side in a "t-bone" fashion

kcraw · Jun 4, 2012

-JC- said:
Apparently the left part of her bumper hit nothing but air. The right part of her bumper hit my rear tire

I can't picture this for a car striking the drivers side in a "t-bone" fashion

My tire sticks out far enough that it acted like a bumper and/or my Jeep is far enough off the ground and her car was low enough that whatever would have hit body went under the Jeep instead. I really really wish there had been a slow motion camera.

mslandsurveyor said:
Seems to me that the bigger, ergo "slower", you appear, the faster and more idiotic other drivers seem to be around you.

People loved to cut me off and generally be pains in the behind when I drove my Super Duty. They were just so worried about getting around me or pulling out in front of me because they thought that I would be slow that they failed to realize just how difficult it can be to stop a massive truck like that.

They are better around the new JKU though than the Super Duty.

Totally agree. When I was in the military I used to occasionally drive a semi with a 40 foot trailer to test sites around the country. Other drivers never seemed to grasp the concept that just because it takes me a bit to reach 60mph, once I'm there 60mph is 60mph.

-JC- · Jun 4, 2012

Oh, I get it, the left side went between the tires. :thumb:

JEEPDON · Jun 4, 2012

panthermark said:
Looking at it from the other side as well.
The person in the other vehicle may not be to happy about having:
A stringer in the ear-hole.
or
A winch in their cheek bone
or
Have a lifted Jeep with a stubby bumper and 35's submarine their car...and they catch a face full of hot engine.
or
Have one those off-road tires that are sticking out past the fenders fling a rock at their windshield.

These are some of the reasons that, if all the Liberals could have their way, your Jeep would be no higher than their Prius. That way all collisions would be "fair"! Just look at the bumper height of a new 3/4 ton Pickup compared to the bumper height of one made in say 1968!

kcraw · Jun 4, 2012

JEEPDON said:
These are some of the reasons that, if all the Liberals could have their way, your Jeep would be no higher than their Prius. That way all collisions would be "fair"! Just look at the bumper height of a new 3/4 ton Pickup compared to the bumper height of one made in say 1968!

Seriously? You just typed that? :facepalm:

JEEPDON · Jun 4, 2012

Don't you remember that about 15 years ago, how the Alphabet soup news was crying about how bad collisions were between SUV's; Pickups and regular sedans?? How the auto manufacturers were "mandated" by our government by the people to make SUV and pickup bumpers lower??
I guess some people have short memories!

kcraw · Jun 5, 2012

JEEPDON said:
Don't you remember that about 15 years ago, how the Alphabet soup news was crying about how bad collisions were between SUV's; Pickups and regular sedans?? How the auto manufacturers were "mandated" by our government by the people to make SUV and pickup bumpers lower??
I guess some people have short memories!

There is no federal requirement for bumper height, per se. 49 C.F.R. Part 581 requires all vehicles to meet certain impact safety standards and the test is conducted at an impact between 16 - 20 inches. So this has the effect of limiting bumper height, but it only applies to manufacturers and not enthusiasts. You can mod away the safety all you want. Bumper height requirements for modded vehicles are regulated at the state level, and it varies. Here in Colorado it's based on headlamp height which is either 48 or 60 inches, I can't remember.

Sorry, but I really hate it when people bring their tinfoil hat politics into things and ruin perfectly good conversations with broad and baseless generalizations. Man, I just want to talk about Jeeps.

Lift = Safety?

kcraw

kjeeper10

daggo66

Sueby

kcraw

MTH

kcraw

MTH

DrDanimalSize

panthermark

jkjeeper06

kcraw

mslandsurveyor

-JC-

kcraw

-JC-

JEEPDON

kcraw

JEEPDON

kcraw

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